BSA Ep. 8 - Why Do a Mother and Son See Evil Differently (Part 2)
In this episode of Theology Lab's Beyond Simple Answers, Scott Rice sits down with Jasper Su and his mother, Vivian Su, for an honest conversation about faith, doubt, suffering, theology, and the beauty of asking hard questions. What happens when a lifelong Christian wrestles with uncertainty? Can questioning God actually deepen faith instead of destroying it? Jasper shares his journey through doubt, intellectual struggle, and spiritual curiosity, while Vivian reflects on parenting with grace, openness, and unconditional love.
Together, they explore:
Christian doubt and deconstruction
Faith and uncertainty
The problem of suffering
and God’s presence
Why questioning can lead to deeper belief
This episode might speak to folks who have ever felt like a “bad Christian” for asking difficult questions, and for parents, pastors, and faith communities trying to create safer spaces for authentic spiritual conversations.
Listen Now
Description
In this episode of Theology Lab's Beyond Simple Answers, Scott Rice sits down with Jasper Su and his mother, Vivian Su, for an honest conversation about faith, doubt, suffering, theology, and the beauty of asking hard questions. What happens when a lifelong Christian wrestles with uncertainty? Can questioning God actually deepen faith instead of destroying it? Jasper shares his journey through doubt, intellectual struggle, and spiritual curiosity, while Vivian reflects on parenting with grace, openness, and unconditional love. Together, they explore: Christian doubt and deconstruction / Faith and uncertainty / The problem of suffering and God’s presence / Why questioning can lead to deeper belief and more. This episode might speak to folks who have ever felt like a “bad Christian” for asking difficult questions, and for parents, pastors, and faith communities trying to create safer spaces for authentic spiritual conversations.
Resources
📚 Check out Kristin’s book, We Mend With Gold!
Find a local bookseller: https://tinyurl.com/MendwithgoldLocal
Amazon: https://tinyurl.com/MendWithGold
Generated TranscriptScott Rice (00:00)
Scott Rice Jasper, is there anything that helps you see that you're not a bad Christian for raising these doubts and questions? And I would hope for anyone who's listened to the series, one of the goals has been to really open up space for these kinds of questions and doubts as part of what faith can look like. ⁓ But let me just go back to you here and ask, there... ⁓
Do you ever feel like a bad Christian for bringing up these kinds of questions? And is there anything that helps you see that they are part of the process of faith? Recognizing that's a leading question.
Jasper Su (22:33)
Yeah, that's fine. That's a good question. ⁓
Back in college, I served as a leader in college ministry. And ⁓ as someone who's recognized as a person who's supposed to lead groups to be theologically sound, I felt often like if I were to ever raise a question, it would be like dissuading the group, right? ⁓ There were times when I'd be like, my gosh, I am so uncertain about a lot of these questions where I would be like a bad Christian to have.
develop these spaces where there's a lot of uncertainty in spaces that I'm leading. There have been good examples where opening that space has led to really positive and fruitful discussion. ⁓ But there's still a hesitancy of, ⁓ man, why am I questioning? I grew up in the faith. I know all the Sunday School answers. Why haven't I gotten it yet? This idea of why hasn't it clicked for me is this idea of like...
I guess that's it pings to this idea of ⁓ the contrast between what I would like to have as childlike faith of certainty and just sound faith. ⁓ But I also see with my own personality and drive and passion to fully understand things, that type of faith would never work with my soul, right?
Scott Rice (24:00)
I mean...
Jasper Su (24:01)
It would never be okay for me to... ⁓
fully believe something that hasn't been tested, that hasn't been questioned, right? And if God made me this way, how beautiful is it that I get to struggle with it and play with this puzzle for like the rest of my life, ⁓ to like deepen my own faith in comparison to just not questioning and skipping a long life, you know? Like I think there's an, I think Kristen talked about this in a previous podcast too. Like there is joy in wrestling.
with these questions, ⁓ with this idea of I'll come to an answer eventually, hopefully, ⁓ if not through just the power of my own family's prayers and hopes and dreams. ⁓ I think the questioning feels like the correct way for my own personality and how I've been created to really come to a deeper sense of faith.
Scott Rice (25:02)
just a few final questions for you here, but Vivian, let me ask you. ⁓ You and Jasper are in different places on this, but what do you see in Jasper's faith and his question asking?
Vivian Su (25:14)
I'm so
⁓ as his mom, ⁓ and I'll speak for Jimmy too, that we can have conversations like this, that we can discuss, that we can not see eye eye and be able to kind of flesh things out and to think about things. I think that ⁓ I'm encouraged that he's continuing to seek out.
⁓ the answers that he wants ⁓ to help better understand things. I think one of my biggest fears is that ⁓ Jasper is going to have to suffer something great, you know, in order to ⁓ get to that point. And, you know, as a mom, I really don't want that for him. But if that is what it takes,
to bring him to better understanding of who God is ⁓ than so be it. But I also think that one of my greatest desires is for ⁓ Jasper to really feel God's love for him deeply. And... ⁓
to understand that he is wonderfully made, ⁓ purposely made in the fashion that he is with the beautiful brain that he has to think about these things, to challenge ⁓ thinking instead of just ⁓ accepting things. ⁓ Because I think that that is ⁓ necessary and powerful. ⁓
I would say in general, I'm not just an accepting kind of person. ⁓ And so this is almost an anomaly to how I live my life. ⁓ But I am so grateful ⁓ for the faith family, ⁓ the greater faith family that does engage Jasper in conversation and does pray for, you know,
just understanding or, yeah, better understanding and working out his faith. Because I think that these are important questions. And, yeah.
Scott Rice (27:56)
Jesper, let me ask you, is there any way you feel like God has somehow showed up? And explain this in your own language as you're comfortable, that God has somehow shown up for you in your question asking, where you maybe have experienced or discovered God in a different way by means of the questions and explorations that you've been on.
Jasper Su (28:19)
⁓ yeah. I'll start with ⁓ the way that I approached it that didn't work at first. ⁓ when my mom says this idea of like, hopefully it doesn't take a large amount of suffering for me to feel God's presence and love, but I was like, maybe it will. maybe two years ago I shared in my small group at my church, like, Hey guys, can you just pray that like God would strike me with lightning? Crazy prayer. I understand.
But I was like, if it actually happens, wouldn't that be such a sick testimony with all of you? wouldn't that just directly show God's presence in my life? Obviously, he would be real. ⁓ So that's a really bad approach, I'm aware. Don't do that now. But I will say...
The greater faith family and the different people God has put in my life to match the same level of questioning, to have people who struggled with the same ideas and questions about suffering, questions about like his character as well. ⁓ And to be able to talk to them.
but also those who kind of like have gotten out of this rut has shown me that like it's possible, but that their love and empathy for where I am is kind of, it's very timely, right? Like even this podcast alone has been good for me to reflect as I'm thinking through these questions.
And it's almost like God is guiding me on a path and putting people in my life and all of these things that, while yes, you could describe it as just the natural course of life, I think the presence of others has helped to show that He is present in my life and does care and show me realistically that I can interface with others who are on the same journey as me. And that gives me like...
faith on good days, like that he's real and that he's present. And then on bad days, I'm just like, ⁓ it's just the people I'm surrounding myself with, you know, like, but it varies by chance. So like, that is probably the one thing that I can think of right now in this season to show that ⁓ a testament to God's love and presence in my life.
Scott Rice (30:48)
Yeah, I hear in that, you the power of knowing that you are not alone and your journey and the questions you're asking and God showing up in those things, that goes a really long ways. Well, both of you, I just wanna know, like I said earlier on, my goal here is to be able to kind of just showcase your different views and then the love and respect that you have between each other. And obviously it's a bit unique here, you're in a family and that's gonna bring its own kind of gifts and challenges. But let's finish with this question here.
If you could say something very briefly about how to make conversations like this work, right? It's just, let's be honest. I think it's a little bit, it's little bit, it's little unique. It's kind of a unicorn to have, you know, a family that's open about, first of all, a family that discusses the theology of evil and that is open to naming their differences. But if you think there's maybe anything that does, it's a little more widely applicable to help folks be able to talk about these differences, what would that be? Do you have any nuggets of wisdom?
Vivian Su (31:47)
think I would go back to, again, the basics of...
There is such value in hearing different perspectives and that you may go in thinking you're right and you know everything. And then you hear another perspective that makes you go, huh, I never considered that. Right. And I think also considering that there are many different perspectives, ⁓ nuances.
to many different kinds of questions. So not even just theological questions, things in general. ⁓ And I think being able to have these kinds of open conversations, especially with the people that you love most in this world, is just so valuable, right? It does make for entertaining car rides and dinner conversation and just kind of being on the couch or just walking in nature, but... ⁓
It deepens our relationship. It deepens our understanding and our appreciation for how God has created each of us to be and the gift of who he has given us to be in relationship with. And so I would say don't miss out on that. Seize that opportunity whenever you get it to, yeah, to just love on your people. And that means...
having conversations and discussions and in safe places, right? Not that you have to come across as like, my way or the highway. that's just never good. ⁓ so I would just encourage folks to really try cause you want to, right?
I kind of look at it like you want the best relationship that you can get. So what can you do to do that?
And part of that is just having an open mind and open, like don't shut them down just because their answer is different than yours and just keep working at it, keep talking. So.
Jasper Su (33:55)
Yeah, I think that these conversations have happened only as of recent for our family. It's not like we grew up doing this. This is a very blessed season in our lives. I think it has come from, at least my openness to having these conversations has come from a practical framing of I am now 24. I am a young adult at the church that I'm a part of. And the idea that like,
I'm now seeing contexts of like, my friends are teachers and like the teachers are just human. Those are people that I used to think were like fully flushed adults, but now they're just like friends that hang out with on a Thursday, right? Like there's contextualization of the people that we're interacting with that I used to think had it all together, that I used to think were so much older and wiser are also experiencing life for the first time, right? And that was applied to my parents.
in context of, wow, like at one point they were also just young adults and like they must have had stories and they must have had ⁓ testimonies that I had never really thought to ask before until I got to a point where like I'm now being recognized as someone who might be on their way to fully fleshing out my life. And I'm like, hey, I don't have it all figured out. ⁓ How did my own parents get to a point where they have?
continued to try and figure it out, right? So that curiosity and framing of reference of like, as a child wanting to know more about my parents' life has opened the conversation to just curiosity and understanding. ⁓ Yes, of course, selfishly to satiate my own struggles, but to get to know more and deepen our own relationship as child to parent and as a family as a whole ⁓ has been helpful.
Scott Rice (35:53)
Well, I think it is very clear that you both have a real and genuine and deep faith. And my hope here is that, Vivian, going back to what you said, people, I think, want to talk about this. And I can't think of anything better than to kind of showcase two people and going on live on a public podcast like this to actually give that a go and tease out some parts of that in what is a much longer and broader conversation. So thanks for being guests at Beyond Simple Answers. So grateful to have you here.
Vivian Su (36:21)
Thank you so much for having us.
Jasper Su (36:23)
Thanks for having us. Appreciate it.
